Saturday, December 03, 2005

Germs 2005

I’ve been getting alot of inquiries lately about the Germs. People are interested not only in stories about Darby, but in hearing my opinion about the movie, What We Do Is Secret, that is being made about the band. They are also interested in the subsequent formation of the New Germs, as the band fronted by actor Shane West has been called on the internet.

I’ve had a hard time answering some of the questions. I know that the three remaining principle members of the band have been involved with and/or consulted about the movie, so I expect that most of it will be accurate and portray the band in the way they wish to be portrayed.

I also think it speaks very highly of Shane West that the remaining members of the band would want to reunite and play as the Germs with him as lead singer. I haven't had a chance to catch them yet. I don’t think there is any doubt that the band will be well-rehearsed, sound good and do a great show. But I suspect that is not what people want to know. There is a question that I feel many of you are trying to ask but have not done so far. The question is, can a band that stood for something at a certain point in time have the same relevance today?

That question goes further than asking about the Germs. There are many people performing today who were around when punk in Los Angeles was in its infancy. My favorite band, The Weirdos, still plays. They are still wonderful. I go see them every chance I get, but do their performances mean the same thing that they did 30 years ago? No. Not only is the band line-up different today, but the music is older. We’re all much older, and punk itself is nearly 30 years old.

The first time you step onto an airplane may be a new and exciting experience for you, but it’s not the same as the first time someone climbed into an airplane in the early 1900s. Air travel is part of our culture; there is little mystery and magic left of what once must have seemed an incredible experience. Even if you’ve never been on a plane yourself, you’ve seen planes flying overhead and you know people who have been on them, they are part of everyday life. Punk rock as a cultural movement has come to that point. It is part of everyday life. Some of you have grown up with a punk rock soundtrack because your parents or older siblings were listening to it. Punk music and ideology is in a different stage of its life. Which is not to say that punk isn’t relevant or valuable, just that it isn’t what it was. It has been changed, perfected, expanded upon and reinvented by some, and of course commercialized and exploited by others.

I’m sorry to say this, but if you didn’t see the Germs, or Weirdos, or Screamers, or Bags in the late ‘70s, you will never be able to have that experience. You may see reunions of some of those bands, and they may sound great, and you may even think to yourself, “this is what it was like”, but don’t fool yourself. If you want that experience, you would do better to go see a new band, one that is creating something all their own, one that can’t trace its roots back 30 years, one which is true to the spirit in which punk was born.

21 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thank you Alice. Your history of airplanes metaphor was a great way to explain the feeling of being at early punk shows and how it can't possibly be replicated, yet without being obnoxious and elitist.

On one hand, it tickles me that year after year I see fresh new punk kids, but it also makes me very sad that they aren't doing something new because that was the magic of it.

Laura

Anonymous said...

Very well put, Mrs. Bag.

Seeing the Sex Pistols several years ago at the Greek was more odd than it was exciting. 11 year old kids with black leather GBH and CRASS jackets were dancing in their seats, but most of the people were older farts like myself. The Pistols were amazing though, playing a nice tight set interlaced with Johnny's humorous banter between songs.

When I read about the recent Germs reunion a the Olympic I thought it was a typo!

Anonymous said...

Back when I was a "punk", we had to wear cardboard boots cause there weren't no leather to be had! The snow froze our toes and the cold made my spike droop down to my shoulders. And we liked it! I played drums on two bails of hay cause there weren't no a drums to play! And I liked it! I was a real punk with my hay and my cardboard and my safety pins made outta momma's old rags. My drummin' sticks were the bones of a dead cat. Our fans didn't pogo, they shivered! In the cold! In the barn where we played! I played in a band called the Feed Sacks. We was the best there ever was or ever will be and you young'uns can just eat my manure! Weren't no politics involved cause the the Good Lord was all we needed and all we had when the blizzards came and kilt us all in the summer of ought six. You filly flappers, silly hosers, figgle floppers. Anarchy in the pig pen! I'm late for bingo and I don't care!

My teeth just fell out, pick 'em for me you slender, young, bootle bopple! If I had my prostate I'd pee down your back! You ain't no punk like me (available soon!).

Dad Feedsack

Robert Robbins said...

I've been a fan of punk rock for years but I've only listened to NYC and UK punk bands. I never even heard of LA punk until recently so it is all new to me. Today I watched The Germs DVD "Media Blitz". Darby Crash sings like a drunken frat boy! I could not believe how terrible this punk rock legend was as a performer, just dreadful. No wonder The Germs were considered a joke band. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the spectacle of a disaster like Sid Vicious but it is pure showbiz phoniness to praise The Germs. Don Bolles later played for 45 Grave, a group that I do like. Dinah Cancer's maniacal laugh on "Party Time" is classic.

Anonymous said...

thanks to Dad Feedsack for the much needed laugh I got this morning.
Thanks to Alice for this great website and sharing her views with all if us.
Thank God for Punk...

darkside777 said...

Nice comment! What a silly thing to say.

If we didn't start what we did back in 76-77 in LA, LA would of been left off the map and then you wouldn't have your Blink-182 & Green Day...

BriteYellowGun said...

Alice, you're right about never being able to recreate that experience. It's what makes me curious about the Germs movie. I have NEVER seen anything that even remotely depicted what punk was back then so I hold a lot of reservations about whether or not this movie can rise to the challenge. Then again, based on where I live now, I may never find out! Anyway, it's about time that someone attempted to explore/document the history of something that has endured for 30 plus years and had such a major influence on the music that's around today. I loved the NY punk stuff but honestly, it's the LA punk scene of the 70's and early 80's that has shaped and influenced today's punk to a much greater extent.

mjp said...

Oh come on...Fuck nostalgia! is the most punk rock comment here!

Alice Bag said...

Yeah, well that comment would be punk if it was directed at someone who was actually nostalgic. I agree that nostalgia is not a pretty thing, but there is a difference between documenting something and yearning to return to it. I don't think anyone here is living in the past, or wishing they were back at the Masque. We just want to tell our own stories in our own words.

The guy who admits that he was chasing "two legged deer" in the Ozarks get my vote for most punk rock comment because he clearly doesn't give a shit what any of us think!

Anonymous said...

The bands may not mean the same thing they did back then but they could inspire people just as much if not more. Music, in my opinion, is never archaic. The people that were at the Masque were obviously inspired by music that came before the 70's. I look at this music in a similar way. I woudn't dare try to "recreate" it, but thats no reason why I can't enjoy the noise that comes out of the radio when that needle hits the plastic. Fortunately the Hollywood scene was so unique it broke the mold when it came to punk. Unfortunately because it always lived up to its reputation, even to this day, it's memory is faded like the paint on the walls. Thus kids like me have no idead what really happened. I cant hate them cause they don't know, I couldn't help it I had to know more and more, and I still don't know. I am glad Alice, and Brendan, and everyone is trying to fix that. I don't think kids today look at punk and associate it with the Masque and the hollywood scene. They've never even heard of it. I think in most other scenes from back then there is not much to recreate. I think that is why you see so many kids today shouting "PUNK" and leaving a bad taste in your mouths. They aren't associating themselves with the Hollywood scene. They don't see it as being as unique as those who were there know it to be. They just are'nt able to grasp the connotations in their actions. On the other hand if they all knew I doubt most of them would care. It's still important to pass down information from one generation to the next though. Fuck nostalgia?? FUCK YOU, man, Im trying to find out everything I can. Sounds to me like if you knew the truth you would find out youve been living a lie. I know you don't think it means the same as it did, but it means everything to me. Its all inspired me to do more than I could have ever anticipated. So please don't stop spreading the word.

Anonymous said...

Alice,
I've been reading your very incisive commentary and agree completely -- it's precisely one of the reasons there's no hint of me in the bio-pic. As the band's manager, I played a huge part in the growth and development of the band and in the Germs story and the idea of attempting to recreate/replicate that story just seems counter to everything punk rock (well my punk rock anyway) was about, hence my repeated refusal to be involved in any of this.
It's interesting how, in order to sell this bill of goods, the history of my involvement with the band is being rewritten by those who know better -- part of the nature of revisionist history is that uncooperative central characters are diminished and cooperative characters who were originally at the periperhy become central characters. That aside, Darby is dead (for 25 years last week) and Don, Lorna and Pat are pushing 50. Shane West is a TV actor for god's sake. The Germs were a moment in time that is over, and all the re-creations in Hollywood won't bring it back (or even come close). It's one thing when a band continues to grow as a musical entity, but none of these fast-buck punk reunions (such as the sex pistols) showcase any new material -- they are inert and static approximations of something that used to exist but doesn't anymore. Like it or not, any show billed as a "Germs" show isn't one until Darby rises from his resting place in Holy Cross.

Hellin and I, two women who had hugely important roles in the fate of the band are not represented in the bio-pic -- how much of the "true story" can it be telling?

I've turned down decent money to tell the story of my involvement with the Germs and will continue to do so -- again, it seems counter to everything *my* punk rock stood for and at the risk of sounding stupidly idealistic at an advanced age, my philosophical beliefs are still pretty close to what they were in 1977. Which is not such a bad thing.
Keep speaking the truth sister!
xox Nicole Panter (manager of the Germs, 1977-80

Anonymous said...

I agree wholeheartedly with Nicole Panter although Pat Smear is a nice guy (I don't know Lorna... I'll pass on my thoughts about Don Bolles... lol.....)... Thank you for posting that. I want to see Jasper Focker Jr. and Dad Feedsack on a double bill, myself, DAMNIT!!! Now, THAT is REAL punk rock!!! :D ;) Thank you. :)

*** Martha ***

Anonymous said...

bravo nicole for your honest views!

Anonymous said...

In regards to Regi still in prison since 1979~ I don't understand why? yes, he killed a man , I am not negating that fact, but there are many others who have commited the same or simalar crimes, and have been released on parole.
They are letting the Reagan/ Lennon ( I can't remeber off hand which one- they all look the same) shooter out of the mental hospital on visits to his parents! WTF! all political , since he is now a good little born again asshole, and they want to proove thier faith to the(m)asses.

Anyway~I wish I knew on what basis they continue to deny him a second chance. I think they made an example out of him due to the newness of the punk movement, and the hype of the Sid and Nancy murder.

He dosen't mention much. I know they scrutinize his behavior, and all corospondance (?) he recieves. I think he shows a good head on his shoulders from his letters, but I am not a professional.
I am not afraid of him- he isn't some serial killer, and I think I can trust him. He would just need refrences, employment, and to stay away from drugs and alcohol.

Maybe I should just stop writing him, but then again they allready know he knows me....

Anonymous said...

Hi there,

I heard that the Germs had re formed from Regi Mentle.
Regi and I have been friends since 1990. We were introduced to ecah otehr by a publisher friend, Drew Blood, one of the Riverside kids.
Drew died in 1998 from an AIDS related illness. The Germs were his apotheosis, he created the famous History in cuttings series, and must be remembered for keeping the Germs alive at a time when they were not cult, and were only a wish in the mind of Roger Grossman for a movie.

I get what Alice said about bands that come back..And also that the experience is not the same, even though the licks may be correct, and, the experience may be as studied live. I personally hated the idea that the Dead Kenendys came back, wanting to freeze the moment in time as my 15 year old self. Would I be 15 again? No !
Would the 40 + A few me today want to repeat the lessons life had in store of 29 odd years ago? No and Irrelevant really.

I did see a picture of the Germs sitting on the sofa, and it does really look like them, Don is glazed and possesses a funny hat, previously it was always big head of hair, and Lorna and Pat still smile the smile of the truly innocent....I kind of realised that the ripped young guy on the end of the sofa was the person who now occupies the role of Singer... Irrelevant? I am not sure, would I go and see them given half a chance in London? Yes I think so, would I laugh, cry, and feel that I was at my own private show? Would I want to run in the streets yelling to the World to wake up and realsie who just played? Yes, would I then wake up the following day in a dead drunk realising that I have been another mid life punk dupe? Having fallen for another product? Maybe.

Is punk relevant? Well, I seem to remember the theorists asking that question of whatever scene they were creating in 1978...Is punk dead? I remember the graffitti in London during 1977...

Is it all just rock n rOLL? I remember from 1976, and punks' initial Marxist self analysis....

The fact is that it is all disposable, its all temporary expression, is all building for today, and burning the road to tommorow...Do I car the Germs have reformed? Deeply, Strange Notes still chills my spine and challenges my Cerebral cortex, but was it ever meant to be deep, part of a World Plan hatched by Darby, the Machiavelli of LA's garage punk underground? No, and you know it was like all un self conscious primitive art, art now for arts sake...Hell, they didnt even know it was art, and thats' where Alice Armendariz Bag has it correct, Art like that cannot be duplicated, the moment is passed, what we have here is nostalgia, and nostalgia can be fun....
Please feel free to e mail me..



Al Slammer

in the United Kingdom
e mail - rubyandkaitlin@btinternet.com

Anonymous said...

Give me some names and songs of punk that will give me a great introduction and sampling that will make me like punk.

If not, I'll have to continue listening to Tom Waits, Van Morrison, and we don't want that, do we?

Unknown said...

Hi, it's Cherie the Penguin.O.K....first things first/Tony is not dead! He is alive and well living in Chicago.A Germs reunion? LOL What a farce!You know it can't be done.People who put down the L.A. scene are just jealous cuz they weren't there.Who the hell cares if it's validated or not? We know what it was and man we had a blast!Too bad we had to lose some people in the doing though.

kittyl said...

was dissapointed by the "germs" movie...and sad i had to tell poor Regi Mentle that his character wanders through a scene based on his "ketamine" story in the "lexicon devil" book, letting Darby go out while taking a mystery shot, while he stands by, watching & shaking his head at "that crazy darby" as chris pontius, wandering around dressed in a devil's costume, steals Regi's line about the mystery drug being "ketamine, the stuff that fags use for that big daddy ass fuckin'"...Regi said "wow...that really disturbs me, to be portrayed as someone who would just stand there & watch as a dear friend of mine fell out from an overdose, is just wrong!" he was dissapointed, too...and very hurt!...he was very close with darby, & lived in darby's bedroom with him & donnie rose...the movie is so innacurate, it's stunning...considering they had quite an accurate referrence tool in the "lexicon devil" book...it's just a big commercial for the new germs to rake in the cash from dumb young kids & nostalgic old farts...really dissapointing, & very very sad...poor Regi!!

Anonymous said...

I wish it wasn't so. There's no movement anymore. There isn't anything to rage against or stand for. There are hardly shows worth going to anymore. Nothing breaks ground.

I absolutely adore your blog/flickr and am in love with and jealous of your past.

Anonymous said...

Hooo sh*t...I just found this during a flu/Nyquil/Zoloft traipse of the Net...as if I found a big, cardboard box of porn in a vacant lot...my only (other) comment: Bailey McCann - be careful with jealously from someone else's past (yes, I'm guilty, too). Tomorrow ("future") do something ("present") wild...you might even make someone else jealous of your own past, but, if nothing else, you'll blown your own mind (yes, I'm guilty, too).

TT

Anonymous said...

It sucks how Punk has become an everyday part of everyone's lives here, now the shock value is pretty much gone.